nor is the bitch.
A woman died. One whose politics I despise, then and now, one who was no friend to feminism, who called the ANC terrorists, and divided the country like none since (though Osborne is doing a good job trying).
But when we buy into the language of hate (witch) or the language of misogyny (bitch) all we do is collude with a woman who believed there was no such thing as society, that it was each of us for ourselves. A woman who promoted just one woman in all her time in power and who perceived feminism to be a poison.
We’re better than that. And our language should be better as well.
We also give her, and her bitter legacy, the oxygen of publicity. Let’s not.
sort of about everything, sort of about feminism
Not Writing But Blogging 
She also said that she had no use for art.
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Totally agree. http://donthatedonate.com/ is a response that challenges her ‘bitter legacy’ without using the language of hate or misogyny, by, as its byline says, being the society that she said didn’t exist. Your support for this initiative would be greatly appreciated.
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that’s a brilliant site, thank you. have tweeted and shared on fb.
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Thank you Stella for putting what I was thinking into words. When people come into power and money, they cease being champions for their gender, race, social issues and religion. They become champions for their class and the status quo because the status quo put them there. All they care about is staying in power at any cost.
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Well said!
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Yes. Thank you.
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I’m so glad you’ve posted this. I was all set to do something similar. Thanks
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I’m glad we don’t live in medieval times you lot would sure be the witches. There were men in power that started what she finished and men in power after, do you speak ill of them the same? Have you tried doing the job of a prime minister, to know what is involved in doing the job. Any man or woman in power will be liked or disliked for whatever traits they may hold, but let’s not forget we are all fellow human beings. Rise above your hatred and be the better person?
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Witch, bitch, dick, knob, bell-end, wanker, fool, idiot, heartless, cold, etc. People will express themselves how they feel. Its only words most of the time unless you want to fit them in a personal agenda. Rarely offensive in this day and age unless you decide you want to be offended by a combination of rather meaningless letters. This is clear to most rational thinkers, especially with such a divisive figure
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Couldn’t disagree more. Hate language is hate language, whatever the reason. Knob and bell-end are male-gendered words and both routinely used comedically, not aggressively, neither of them have the aggressive power of bitch or witch. Idiot, heartless and cold are perfectly fine, as they are not gendered words, then again, they’re not the words I’m talking about here. Witch and bitch are gendered words, always used about women, and aggressively anti-women – as the 100,000s of women murdered as witches testifies. While it is possible to call ANY words a collection of letters, it is not in any way irrational to suggest that feelings and attitudes are attached to words, and seems odd to suggest irrationality has anything to do with it. Funny how often women are called ‘irrational’ when someone wants to disagree, isn’t it?
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I understand what you’re driving at, but i think this is not right for a few reasons:
People use the phraseology of hate to express a hatred they already feel for her. And they hate her for what she did to them and their loved ones. Saying to a victim that they ought not to feel hatred towards their persecutor is victim-blaming behaviour. I think it originates in Christian theology about forgiveness; my theological tradition requires repentance before forgiveness, and there was certainly never any sign of *that*.
“The witch is dead” surely has essentially no emotional connotations of the persecution of wise women for people today. Instead, it immediately reminds people of Oz. and specifically the happiness of the Munchkins at the demise of their vicious ruler…so not a surprising analogy, really
The notion that Thatcher and her ideology are getting more airtime because of this seems utterly without foundation. She’d be getting a ton of airtime anyway, this just means it’s less lickspittle than it otherwise would be. Plus, this isn’t like the BNF or EDL — it’s not obviously a bad thing that we debate her and her legacy. Finally, it’s a bit odd to use a Thatcherite phrase (oxygen of publicity) that she used in an unsuccessful effort to deny airtime to Sinn Fein (and which arguably just delayed the peace process) to describe the dangers of giving too much publicity to Thatcher!
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Ah yes Steve. That phrase was used intentionally! Obviously. And I disagree, I’m not talking about a general feeling of anger about Thatcher. As I say, I feel exactly the same about those policies. I am speaking specifically about gendered language. And I doubt very much there’d be apologists for use of race-hate or ability-hate language – and nor should there. Somehow though, there are always men keen to tell women they shouldn’t object to another woman being called bitch or witch. I am not prepared to overlook misogynist language, whoever it comes from, and I’m certainly not prepared to let men tell me that I, as a woman, have got it wrong when I tell you bitch and witch sound sexist to me. ALL of our lives have been damaged by Thatcher and Thatcherite ideology. I see no need to employ sexist language to express that. Thatcher did not follow her policies because she was a woman, she did so because she was a Tory. Using anti-woman language is entirely misplaced, not least because it lets off the hook those men who are doing the same, and worse, now.
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I’ve been thinking quite carefully about this, as I’m not often accused as an apologist for sexism and it’s an accusation that has rocked me back on my heels a bit.
As I see it, there are two issues:
– Is it OK to hate Thatcher?
– If so, what language is acceptable for expressing that emotion?
My view is:
– It is OK to hate Thatcher
– Misogynistic language is not acceptable
In my previous post, I asserted “the phrase “the witch is dead” surely has no emotional connotations of the persecution of wise women for people today”. You have asserted very strongly that I am wrong. I really wasn’t trying to be offensive or sexist — I was simply saying what I thought to be the case, ie that the phrase evokes Oz not misogyny. Thinking further, these are not either-or. It evokes Oz *and* misogyny, and so should not be used.
I’ve been trying to think of another song that people might have used to express their glee over the demise of a leader who did them harm, and I can’t think of a single one — good or bad, sexist or not. But then I’m not especially musical. If I could, I would have tried to start an alternative meme going. Can anyone else?
Finally, I still think that it is a good rather than bad thing to be discussing Thatcher and her legacy, and while I get that you used the phrase “oxygen of publicity” deliberately, I don’t understand your intent, unless it was simply wordplay.
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thank you for your considered response. I think my ‘oxygen of publicity’ phrase, used intentionally, was intended to say ‘let’s not be her’? Let’s not buy into the rhetoric that makes the words more important that the actions – which, sadly, I think this week has been all about the words, when it would have been great to have had it about the actions. We have a current govt behaving far worse, far more aggressively than Thatcher’s govt did, and I truly do not hear aggressive anti-male words used about those men (who are making vile actions) in the same way I hear anti-women words used about her. I am NO apologist for Thatcher. But I am not OK with her actions being dismissed as female when the real problem is conservatism. Thank you for responding.
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Misogyny is rampant as evidenced by the males hurling vile sexualise insults concerning Margaret Thatcher the woman rather than Margaret Thatcher the politician.
As we know racist insults hurled at black male footballers is considered rightly to be ‘hate speech’ but innumerable men and their female handmaidens uttering women-hating insults is just ‘freedom of speech’ apparently. Obviously women are not human which is why men continue to utter misogynistic women-hating insults with no accountability.
Remember those men who hurl women-hating insults concerning Margaret Thatcher are the same males who utter misogynistic and women-hating insults at any woman who these males view as ‘challenging male power and male right to voice their male opinions.
Men always claim ‘I don’t understand’ when they are held to account for uttering/promoting male hatred of women.’ How strange given men are supposedly the ones who have superior intellectual abilities!!
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Brilliant and succinct Hecuba -misogyny is clearly thriving, astonishing so many are apparently unable to see it….Thatcher’s death shows the woman-haters have been flushed out.Thatcher is attacked and vilified not because of her appalling policies but because she is a woman.
Rightly racist attacks are publicly condemned and understood as hate-speech but women are subjected to misogynist insults on a daily basis and nothing happens…..this is woman-hating-what’s not to understand?
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I overheard this catchphrase in the office last week, referring to a colleague who recently left the business.
Let’s hope this linguistic misogyny does not add to the Thatcher legacy.
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